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Old 04-29-2010, 06:44 AM   #1
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Default 3.5 Swap Parts Differences and Interchanges

Identical Parts

A/C Compressor (93-95 Legend only, 91-92 must use Legend or change manifold)
A/C Belt Tensioner and Bracket
Belts - Alternator, Power Steering and A/C
Camshaft Front Seal
Camshaft Rear Plug
Crankshaft, Rear Main Seal
Crankshaft, Rear Cover (rear main housing) and o-ring
Crankshaft, Front Seal
Cylinder Head Bolts
EGR Valve & Lift Sensor
EGR Bracket (on head)
Flexplate/Flywheel (Automatic only)
Idle Control Valve (IACV/EACV)
Intermediate Shaft & Bearing (shaft that goes through oil pan for driver's side axle to differential)
Orifice, Camshaft Bearing
Orifice, Lifter
PCV Valve
Power steering pump
Power steering upper bracket
Starter (uses slightly different design but 100% compatible)
Sensor, Oxygen
Sensor, Knock
Sensor, Coolant Temperature
Sensor, Coolant Gauge
Sensor, Cam Position (93-95 Legend only, 91-92 must use Legend sensor)
Sensor, Throttle Position (93-95 Legend Type II with TCS only – up facing sensor)
Sensor, Oil Pressure
Sensor, Map (relocated on fuel rail but it’s the same part #)
Thermostat
Thermostat “goose neck”
Valve, Intake (Type I only, type II I 1mm larger)
Valve, Exhaust
Valve, Lifters/Tappets
Valve, Rocker Arms
Valve Seal

Parts that are eliminated

Engine oil cooler (eliminated)
*Deleted, area where this once occupied is now occupied by the balance shaft.

Differential cooling pipes and hoses.
*RL has an un-cooled differential

PAIR System
*When compared to a type I 3.2 motor the pair system is completely eliminated. You must change the driver’s side exhaust manifolds, PAIR pipe and type I 3.2 intake manifold to retain this emission system. Note that type II 3.2’s don’t have the PAIR system.

Air boost valve
*Air boost valve is eliminated.

Oil Temperature Sensor
*eliminated from rear of passenger’s side valve cover, but bung is still there. See valve covers for more info.

Parts that are added

Balance Shaft
*A balance shaft was added to the passenger side of the block.
*It’s inclusion changed the casting of the block significantly.
*It is obviously an engineering after-thought.
*At the rear of the block, one of the mounting ears was extended in a semi-circle to clear the balance weights. Therefore, one of the bell housing bolts on the legend transmission will not line up to it.
*It is driven off a separate cog on the crankshaft pulley and uses a separate belt and tensioner mounted to the oil pump.
*The balance shaft runs external to the block in a tube to from the front gear drive to weights in the rear closest to the flywheel.
*The shaft spins out of sequence with the crank and requires a special method to time it properly.

Block Drain Pipe
*An engine coolant block drain pipe is added on the passenger's side on what used to be the coolant supply line to the differential.
*It is capped off with a rubber cap, simply remove the cap to drain the engine block of coolant.

RL Intake Manifold Notes

*RL Uses a COMPLETELY different upper intake manifold and throttle body base.
*When using the RL intake, it’s recommended to use the RL throttle body it’s redesigned with internally different ports and the EVAP vacuum nipple is facing the wrong way.
*VIS butterfly mid-section has same part number as Legend and is 100% Compatible.
*Lowest section of the intake has a redesigned EGR setup with one hole on the driver’s side instead of 2 and a baffle to prevent debris from entering the intake manifold. Compatible with Legend intake
*Re-designed aluminum billet fuel rail system with different style fuel pressure regulator and addition of muffler to dampen spikes in pressure.
*Elimination of PAIR emissions system.
*Elimination of air boost valve.
*Relocation of air intake temp sensor from front of manifold to rear.
*Relocation of fast idle valve from rear of intake manifold to the top of the throttle body base.
*Relocation of the fast idle valve intake hose from the rear to the front and elimination of the fast idle valve pipe.
*Coolant temperature sensor and gauge sender switch spots on the water bypass. If tearing down the RL manifold, use the Legend water bypass to prevent having to rewire these sensors.
*Requires making extensions and modifications to the wiring harness and vacuum lines to use on the Legend.

When using the RL Intake manifold, use these parts from the RL:
Sensor, air intake (screw in instead of flange)
Fast idle valve (it’s coolant pipes are facing the opposite direction)
Fuel Rails
Fuel Pressure Regulator (different design and fuel pressure)
Throttle Body


Legend Intake Manifold Notes

*Legend manifolds, both the Type I and Type II, bolt directly onto the RL motor when using the RL heads.
*Enables usage of the legend fuel rails and covers for a stealth install and easier parts interchange.
*Does not require modification and elongation of the wire harness.
*In order to use the Legend intake manifolds you must change the pipe under the manifold and the water outlet on the back of the driver’s side head. This is necessary to provide coolant to the fast idle valve.
*When using the Legend intake, it’s recommended to use the Legend Throttle body. The upward facing TPS sensor must be transplanted and calibrated from the RL motor, or a throttle body from a Type II with TCS may be used. The downward facing TPS sensor interferes with the upper timing covers.

Use the following Legend parts with the Legend intake manifold:
Sensor, Air Intake
Fuel Rails
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Fast Idle Valve
Throttle Body
Water pipe (under intake manifold)
Water outlet (at rear of driver’s cylinder head)
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Last edited by sr5guy; 04-29-2010 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:45 AM   #2
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Parts that are different, but compatible

Alternator Upper Bracket
*Less adjustment is allowed for on the RL’s bracket
*When the Legend bracket is used the taller deck height prevents one of the bolts from lining up properly

Coil Packs
*RL Coil packs were redesigned with a spark detection system for OBD2 misfire detection.
*RL coil packs have 3 prongs versus 2, the extra prong is for the misfire detection.
*Electrically compatible. Can be used on Legend by de-pinning the Legend connectors and installing the pins into the RL connectors with the misfire detection wire cut off.

Differential
*Uses same internal parts and casting as Legend automatic diff.
*Eliminates the use of an internal oil cooler and associated pipes, but the “bungs” for them are still in the casting.
*Compatible with automatic Legends, for M/T use the legend’s cast iron differential.
*Uses different style speed sensor (use Legend)

Exhaust manifolds
*Different part numbers, and shape, but compatible.

Fuel Rails
*Fuel rails are made of billet aluminum.
*Due to different standoffs on the intake manifold they will not bolt to the Legend intake manifold.
*Uses a screw on type fuel pressure regulator instead of a bolt on.

Mount bracket, driver’s side
*Completely different design.
*Uses same bolt pattern as Legend.
*Legend bracket bolts on directly for swap.

Valve covers
*Different design. 3.5 has integrated standoffs cast into the the valve cover. for coil packs, while 3.2 uses screw in standoffs. Same gaskets, bolt locations, shape, etc.
*Passenger’s side valve cover does not have hole drilled and tapped for oil temperature sensor. It does have a bung that can be drilled out and tapped for the sensor.

Parts that are completely incompatible

Alternator
*Same mounting but different electrical connections.

Camshaft pulleys/cogs
*Section width is thinner by 3mm

Crankshaft Pulley/Harmonic Balancer
*Nose and offset of pulley are different due to the presence of the balance shaft drive cog on the crank.
*Belt pulley diameters remain the same
*Belt position remains the same due to the modification of the offset of the pulley
*Pulley is lightened by 2-3lbs when compared with the Legend’s rubber damped pulley

Fuel Injector
*RL uses saturated injectors (12-14ohms) versus the Legend’s peak and hold type (1-2 ohms).
*Different physical electrical connectors.
*RL injectors can be made electrically compatible by removing the injector resistor box.

Mount Bracket, Passenger Side
*The engine mount system was completely changed for the RL, it used a completely redesigned subframe and mount positions were changed.
*The transmission mid-mounts in some RL’s were changed from the bottom of the bellhousing on the transmission to the rear of the engine mount, directly below the starter on the passenger’s side and next to the differential on the driver’s side. The brackets for these motor mounts should be removed for the swap.
*The passenger side front mounting bracket is shaped differently to clear the balance shaft.
*This requires cutting and welding the leg of the Legend’s mount onto the RL mount.
*The driver’s side mounting pattern and location is identical to the Legends and it bolts right on.

Oil pump
*Different by magnitudes. It’s case now supports the tensioner and front drive of the balance shaft.

Oil Pan
*Different design
*Uses different oil filter bung

Oil Filter
*Different shaft size, incompatible

Speed Sensor
*Use Legend Speed sensor

Thermostat housing
*Due to the eliminated port on water pump outlet, the opening is smaller to match.
*Uses a different shaped o-ring gasket.
*Thermostat and gasket remains the same

Timing Belt
*One tooth longer
*Section width is thinner by 3mm

Timing belt drive pulley/cog
*Section width is thinner by 3mm

Timing Covers
*Upper and lower covers are different.

Water Pump
*Does not have hose nipples on passenger side like the 3.2’s where they would interfere with the balance shaft drive
*Overall shorter in length
*Revised and different shape of water passage
*Uses different shaped o-ring gasket.
*Eliminated port to thermostat housing, passage smaller and shaped differently
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Last edited by sr5guy; 04-29-2010 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:07 AM   #3
Dv8
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Excellent write up. This obviously took a long time. Stickied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr5guy View Post

Fuel Injector
*RL uses peak hold injectors versus the Legend’s saturation type.
*Different electrical connections.
*Electrically incompatible.

Oil Filter
*Different shaft size, incompatible
Two things caught my eye, that I need help understanding.

The Legends stock injectors are peak/hold. The RL are saturated.
*Use Legend injectors for swap*

Oil filter. What shaft are you refering to?



~Dv8
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Last edited by Dv8; 04-29-2010 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dv8 View Post
Excellent write up. This obviously took a long time. Stickied.



Two things caught my eye, that I need help understanding.

The Legends stock injectors are peak/hold. The RL are saturated.
*Use Legend injectors for swap*

Oil filter. What shaft are you refering to?



~Dv8
Thanks man! This is a document I was working on for the last year or so, a little here and a little there. I busted my hand open sunday night and needed 7 stitches so I've been out of commision, but obviously I can still type. I decided to finish it up.

EDIT: DV8 You're right.

On the oil filter shaft I meant the threaded shaft the oil filter screws on to... I don't know what its proper name is :dunno:.

-Matt

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PLEASE PLEASE if you spot anything that needs to be edited or additions that need to be made, please post them up. Also for Quaraxkad, please add this to the wiki... I would have like to format it a bit better with tables and what not and add a summary so my customer's can have a reference.
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Last edited by sr5guy; 04-29-2010 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:12 AM   #5
Dv8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr5guy View Post
Thanks man! This is a document I was working on for the last year or so, a little here and a little there. I busted my hand open sunday night and needed 7 stitches so I've been out of commision, but obviously I can still type. I decided to finish it up.

No, I had it right.... Legend injectors ohm out at 12-14ohms, which is saturated, while the RL's ohm out at 1-2ohms which is peak/hold.

http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...jectors-30347/

On the oil filter shaft I meant the threaded shaft the oil filter screws on to... I don't know what its proper name is :dunno:.

-Matt

P.S.
PLEASE PLEASE if you spot anything that needs to be edited or additions that need to be made, please post them up. Also for Quaraxkad, please add this to the wiki... I would have like to format it a bit better with tables and what not and add a summary so my customer's can have a reference.
I dont mean to argue. Legend injectors system is setup for peak and hold, there's a resistor box. They operate at 2ohms. When choosing larger injectors a peak and hold is what you look for. For saturated you need to eliminate the resistor box and probably switch to an EMS.
I emplore you to grab both Legend and RL injectors and check their resistance, you'll see the Legends are 2.0 and the RLs are around 11+

As far as I can tell, there is no resistor box for he RL, so they must be saturated injectors-hi impedence.


"
These Honda fuel injectors are solenoid-actuated constant-stroke pintle type consisting of a solenoid, plunger needle valve and housing. When current is applied to the solenoid coil, the valve lifts up and pressurized fuel is injected. As the needle valve lift and the fuel pressure are constant, the injection quantity is determined by the length of time that the valve is open (ie. the duration the current is applied to the solenoid coil). The injector comes with a filter cap, 7.3x2.2mm o-ring, cushion and seal rings at the top and bottom respectively. These seal rings also serve to reduce operating noise.

When self-diagnosis check engine light indicates code 16, there is a problem in the fuel injector circuit. The fuel injector must be replaced when the resistance is less than 1.5 Ohms or more than 2.5 Ohms between the 2 terminals of the injector. It must also be replaced if there are any internal leakages within the housing."


http://rceng.com/faq.aspx#Do_I_need_...my_application


As for the oil filter shaft; is its apperance different? Legend filters fit mine normally. So I dont understand whats different.

~Dv8
__________________
GT-R 3/7/15 9.2 @151MPH | 12/19/13 994whp 895wtq Dynojet 186 1/2 Mile
16 yrs and counting. To many Experts, not enough Results. Where are yours? Retired Legend 616WHP@18PSI 10/11 12.1@124MPH 02/12 N/A 234whp 229lb-ft 13.7@99mph 95 deg. 06/07 Lexus IS-F Nitrous 11.3@123MPH 392WHP 372WTQ I/H/E N/A-Ladies car now.
Go-Kart 35whp 29wlbft http://www.2slik4u.com/
My Garage

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RIP Dannie FUT James

Last edited by Dv8; 04-29-2010 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dv8 View Post
I dont mean to argue. Legend injectors system is setup for peak and hold, there's a resistor box. They operate at 2ohms. When choosing larger injectors a peak and hold is what you look for. For saturated you need to eliminate the resistor box and probably switch to an EMS.
I emplore you to grab both Legend and RL injectors and check their resistance, you'll see the Legends are 2.0 and the RLs are around 11+

As far as I can tell, there is no resistor box for he RL, so they must be saturated injectors-hi impedence.


"
These Honda fuel injectors are solenoid-actuated constant-stroke pintle type consisting of a solenoid, plunger needle valve and housing. When current is applied to the solenoid coil, the valve lifts up and pressurized fuel is injected. As the needle valve lift and the fuel pressure are constant, the injection quantity is determined by the length of time that the valve is open (ie. the duration the current is applied to the solenoid coil). The injector comes with a filter cap, 7.3x2.2mm o-ring, cushion and seal rings at the top and bottom respectively. These seal rings also serve to reduce operating noise.

When self-diagnosis check engine light indicates code 16, there is a problem in the fuel injector circuit. The fuel injector must be replaced when the resistance is less than 1.5 Ohms or more than 2.5 Ohms between the 2 terminals of the injector. It must also be replaced if there are any internal leakages within the housing."


http://rceng.com/faq.aspx#Do_I_need_...my_application


As for the oil filter shaft; is its apperance different? Legend filters fit mine normally. So I dont understand whats different.

~Dv8
hgeez:

My bad... Let me go back and edit.

Did you use the Legend oil pan by chance? The RL uses a different oil filter and when you try to put a Legend one on an RL it just slides up and wont catch any threads because the hole is larger in the filter.

-Matt
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr5guy View Post
Also for Quaraxkad, please add this to the wiki... I would have like to format it a bit better with tables and what not and add a summary so my customer's can have a reference.
Here's a preliminary wiki version. I'm not thrilled about the layout at the moment, it's a bit jumbled.

LegendWiki - G2: DIY: Engine Swaps: C35 Swap *NEW VERSION*
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:23 PM   #8
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Main relay for RL same as Legend?



~Dv8
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dv8 View Post
Main relay for RL same as Legend?
39400-SP0-013 RELAY ASSY., MAIN (RZ-0105) (MITSUBA) 91 - 95 LEGEND
39400-SZ5-A01 RELAY ASSY., MAIN 96 - 04 RL
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaraxkad View Post
39400-SP0-013 RELAY ASSY., MAIN (RZ-0105) (MITSUBA) 91 - 95 LEGEND
39400-SZ5-A01 RELAY ASSY., MAIN 96 - 04 RL

Not sure that helps, they have the same two plugin terminals and curcuitry is identical, so im going to order one and see. I can get it from autozone for 70!

~Dv8
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GT-R 3/7/15 9.2 @151MPH | 12/19/13 994whp 895wtq Dynojet 186 1/2 Mile
16 yrs and counting. To many Experts, not enough Results. Where are yours? Retired Legend 616WHP@18PSI 10/11 12.1@124MPH 02/12 N/A 234whp 229lb-ft 13.7@99mph 95 deg. 06/07 Lexus IS-F Nitrous 11.3@123MPH 392WHP 372WTQ I/H/E N/A-Ladies car now.
Go-Kart 35whp 29wlbft http://www.2slik4u.com/
My Garage

"People can always copy what I did first" -Jesse James

RIP Dannie FUT James
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