AcuraLegend.Org - The Acura Legend Forum for All Generations of the Honda / Acura Legend; 1986 to Present  

Go Back   AcuraLegend.Org - The Acura Legend Forum for All Generations of the Honda / Acura Legend; 1986 to Present > First Generation Legend -- 1986 - 1990 > 1st Gen. Legend General Discussion

View Poll Results: What sort of forced induction?
C20AT Transplant 1 5.26%
Wing turbo on a C27A1 9 47.37%
Single aftermarket turbo 7 36.84%
Twin turbo 0 0%
Supercharger 2 10.53%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-27-2009, 06:23 PM   #21
89HondaLegend
Old School
Default

47% for the wing turbo on a C27A1 and 35% for a single turbo. I am rather shocked at the results so far to be honest. I assumed it would be TT all the way... :dunno:
Perhaps I could put a C20AT in and another one in the trunk

Any other ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scythe View Post
I vote for single aftermarket turbo.
One that will come on at about 3k would be nice i think, that way you get the boost from the turbo and then the intake butterflies open at about 4k to give you more power.

Realistically the wing turbo is going to suffer on the C27, it would be like putting a T2 on a 4L V6.
It just wont work well, and you will be very disappointed with the gains from the amount of effort it took and then you will go for an aftermarket turbo anyway..

Twin turbos tho, they are ALOT of maintenance, parallel would be better i think, if sequential you will just fry the smaller turbo (eventually) as the bigger one kicks on.
Alot of people with RB26's go for the one big one over the stock sequential set-up.

What ever you choose tho i would convert it to manual first tho.
Hmmm food for though. If the wing turbo churns out about 8 psi that would still be enough to make a bit more power on the C27 regardless of displacement however you are right no doubt that it won't make it that much more powerful.
Preference on the TT idea is for driveability. I don't really want a car which is slow, slow, slow... SUPER FAST until I hit 3K+ RPM. However it certinaly wouldn't be the end of the world seeing as I would be just under the turbo kick in at 60 MPH anyway. I understand it is just about choosing the right gear for the job and knowing how to work the turbo if I go for one big turbo.
As for manual... you need not worry about that, it is on the list of things to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnoye2 View Post
Going with the consensus here ...voted; wing turbo on a c27a1!!!
Thanks Ferj... out of interest why the vote for the wing turbo on the C27? OEM'ness or uniqueness or you think it will be powerful enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam o nela View Post
Single aftermarket turbo with after market management my good man
Thanks Gabe, definetely the smart way to go I agree. Just need to do some research on single V. twins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKLedbetter View Post
What is a C20AT and what is a "winged" turbo?

It would seem to me that the main issue is how much boost pressure can be generated and how much pressure the engine can handle. The 2.3 L four cylinder in the 1985 Mustang SVO was rated at 205 hp with a max boost pressure limited to 16 psi by a wastegate. But it will make more power from simply adjusting the wastegate to allow higher pressure. Fairly simple improvements to breathing and fuel delivery allow even higher pressure before you have to start beefing up the pistons/rods/crank.

How much boost can the winged turbo generate?

Regarding superchargers, it sounds like ya'll are talking about a roots type. I think a Paxton type supercharger would eliminate the need for a custom intake manifold.
C20AT = C series (90 dgree V6), 2.0 Litre, Turbo
Wing turbo was produced by Honda for a short period of time and to my knowledge puts out about 8 psi although I have'nt taken one apart and am unsure about being able to play with boost settings and what not. I have heard a rumour it may be adjusted but it is only a rumour at this point.
__________________
Regards, Steve
Love to Love the Legend


RIP Fut

Last edited by 89HondaLegend; 09-27-2009 at 06:28 PM.
89HondaLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 07:05 PM   #22
89HondaLegend
Old School
Default

While everybody is pondering the POWER question, I am also curious about what to do with the interior colour.
Should I leave it the stock G1 charcoal/black combination or should I go for all black?
The leather will be re-upholstered anyway but I'm having a hard time deciding black or charcoal...
Also I think the dash will be covered in leather, anyone for or against this idea?

Here's what mine looks like now:





Body 9599's Coupe:






Or completely black like this one (Kenso's old '91 G2):


__________________
Regards, Steve
Love to Love the Legend


RIP Fut
89HondaLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 07:08 PM   #23
l4zy415
FRISCO LEGEND BABY!!
 
l4zy415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 10,178

Real Name: James
l4zy415 has a spectacular aura aboutl4zy415 has a spectacular aura aboutl4zy415 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to l4zy415 Send a message via MSN to l4zy415
Default

All black I say.
__________________


My Build Thread
Oh my gawd
That jar better blow me twice and cook breakfast for $1000.
l4zy415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 07:55 PM   #24
BABO_C27A1
Member
 
BABO_C27A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BAY AREA
Posts: 214
BABO_C27A1 is on a distinguished road
Default

i voted for the single after market turbo. i think it will be easier and more cost-effective than the twin or the wing turbo to achieve your 300hp mark. i like the idea of the wing turbo and i would be intrested in watchn but compared to the cost/power it wouldnt be so cheap. i say the single turbo would make you happy with the power and cost .
__________________
BABO_C27A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 08:51 PM   #25
sap
ignore the smoke
 
sap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,545



sap will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to sap
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89HondaLegend View Post
Wing turbo was produced by Honda for a short period of time and to my knowledge puts out about 8 psi although I have'nt taken one apart and am unsure about being able to play with boost settings and what not. I have heard a rumour it may be adjusted but it is only a rumour at this point.
This isn't so much a direct response to you, Steve, but a more elaborate discussion of why I wouldn't go with the wing turbo . I'll disclaim that I don't really have any idea what I'm talking about .

When you're looking for aftermarket turbos you'll get a compressor map to show how efficiently it will flow for a given volume flow rate and boost pressure. This is just a random one I found through google.



Notice there are lines on there showing the actual RPM of the compressor. Notice that for each of these lines the pressure drops off pretty steeply when you increase volume flow, so even though this particular random turbo might be capable of producing 28 psi (not at very good efficiency) at 500 cfm it can't manage to do it at 600 or 700 cfm.

Because we're talking about going from 2.0L to 2.7L we're going to have a 35% increase in flow rate which will shift the operating point on the map over to the right (for high RPM it will likely move out to lower efficiency or past the max flow rate of the turbo). I don't think we know anything about the wing turbo to even be able to make a good evaluation of how well it would work. Even just having complete specs seems like it would be worth going aftermarket to me.
__________________

Sig by Cole Austin
RIP Fut RIP l4zy
Stop by the unofficial Acura Legend IRC channel: Rizon #acuralegend.org
Check out the Acura Legend Wiki!
sap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 09:42 PM   #26
89HondaLegend
Old School
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by l4zy415 View Post
All black I say.
Fair enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by BABO_C27A1 View Post
i voted for the single after market turbo. i think it will be easier and more cost-effective than the twin or the wing turbo to achieve your 300hp mark. i like the idea of the wing turbo and i would be intrested in watchn but compared to the cost/power it wouldnt be so cheap. i say the single turbo would make you happy with the power and cost .
Thanks for the vote, seems like single turbo is the best way to go. Perhaps not the most creative but the most cost effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sap View Post
This isn't so much a direct response to you, Steve, but a more elaborate discussion of why I wouldn't go with the wing turbo . I'll disclaim that I don't really have any idea what I'm talking about .

When you're looking for aftermarket turbos you'll get a compressor map to show how efficiently it will flow for a given volume flow rate and boost pressure. This is just a random one I found through google.



Notice there are lines on there showing the actual RPM of the compressor. Notice that for each of these lines the pressure drops off pretty steeply when you increase volume flow, so even though this particular random turbo might be capable of producing 28 psi (not at very good efficiency) at 500 cfm it can't manage to do it at 600 or 700 cfm.

Because we're talking about going from 2.0L to 2.7L we're going to have a 35% increase in flow rate which will shift the operating point on the map over to the right (for high RPM it will likely move out to lower efficiency or past the max flow rate of the turbo). I don't think we know anything about the wing turbo to even be able to make a good evaluation of how well it would work. Even just having complete specs seems like it would be worth going aftermarket to me.
Thank-you very much for the information Stephen. Unfortunately I am not well informed about turbo's efficiencies and specifications etc however I am usually pretty quick to grasp concepts. I understand the graph above and what you have outlined about an increase in flow rate vs. how much boost or pressure it can generate. That is great help and exactly the sort of information I am looking for.

I am of the (informed) opinion that the wing turbo simply won't be up to the task of providing a sufficient increase in HP on the C27.

So we can rule out:
C20AT transplant - Only 140kW (190HP) and is not enough.
Factory wing turbo on a C27 - It will not cope with the increased displacement and would not generate enough power. (Just before I rule it out completely... is it possible to change the trim on the turbine/s or just not an option? Again I apologise for my lack of turbo knowledge.)
Supercharger - Lots of custom fab and $/HP is not great. Don' like the idea of robbing power from the engine to make power.
__________________
Regards, Steve
Love to Love the Legend


RIP Fut

Last edited by 89HondaLegend; 09-27-2009 at 09:48 PM.
89HondaLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009, 10:10 AM   #27
reddLegend
peep the pic
 
reddLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: cincinnati, OH...by way of Washington DC
Posts: 1,247




Real Name: S.L. Jones, Jr.
reddLegend is on a distinguished road
Default

if you want 300hp, i vote for single large turbo (hope you like lag) or for sequential TT (less lag, but much harder and expensive).

i'm looking to get as close to 300 hp as possible with the STS turbo setup i'm looking to get. i was hoping to have started already but you know how life gets in the way.
reddLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009, 12:33 PM   #28
reddLegend
peep the pic
 
reddLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: cincinnati, OH...by way of Washington DC
Posts: 1,247




Real Name: S.L. Jones, Jr.
reddLegend is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89HondaLegend View Post
While everybody is pondering the POWER question, I am also curious about what to do with the interior colour.
Should I leave it the stock G1 charcoal/black combination or should I go for all black?
The leather will be re-upholstered anyway but I'm having a hard time deciding black or charcoal...
Also I think the dash will be covered in leather, anyone for or against this idea?

Here's what mine looks like now:






Quote:
Originally Posted by 89HondaLegend View Post
While everybody is pondering the POWER question, I am also curious about what to do with the interior colour.
Should I leave it the stock G1 charcoal/black combination or should I go for all black?
The leather will be re-upholstered anyway but I'm having a hard time deciding black or charcoal...
Also I think the dash will be covered in leather, anyone for or against this idea?

Here's what mine looks like now:




i'm a fan of a splash of color, you should do the inside panels of the seat in a different color and leave the rest of it black. or do the inside panels the black but in a different fabric, like cloth, velour, or ultra suede/alcantara.
reddLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
honda, legend, supercharger, turbo, twin turbo


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best approach; advice needed... pnoye2 1st Gen. Legend General Discussion 55 09-20-2009 05:27 PM
Help! - Medical advice! The Crowing The Water Cooler 53 07-23-2009 09:25 AM
Clarion Audio Advice! Travis_Gib0 Audio and Other Electronics 14 07-21-2009 11:45 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

AcuraLegend.Org is not affiliated with, nor represents in any form, Acura and Honda Motor Company. Some logos and names used herein remain the trademark of Honda Motor Company.