AcuraLegend.Org - The Acura Legend Forum for All Generations of the Honda / Acura Legend; 1986 to Present  

Go Back   AcuraLegend.Org - The Acura Legend Forum for All Generations of the Honda / Acura Legend; 1986 to Present > Second Generation Legend -- 1991 - 1995 > 2nd Gen. Legend General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2012, 09:03 AM   #1
abathur
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
abathur is on a distinguished road
Default 92 legend Failed TX NOX test

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster. I've got a 92 legend that just failed emissions in TX. I passed all of the low-speed tests but failed the high-speed test with 1195 ppm Nox of allowed 796.

I'm located out southeast of Houston, between League City and Texas City, and I just moved to the area from VA, where I had a solid mechanic that was familiar with Acura legends. I called around for a while about getting the EGR system cleaned since that's what I'm assuming the issue is. I got a few quotes in the 450-600 range from people that didn't really sound familiar with the car, and one terrorist who said he'd worked on the problem before and used some sort of drill attachment to pseudo-roto-rooter the EGR which sounded like a pretty terrible idea, especially at his price. Every mechanic/service-tech I've spoken to so far sounded very skeptical of my suspicion that it was an EGR issue (aside from the one desperate to quote me for replacing the EGR valve as well) and very desperate to sell me diagnostic services.

I went to the stealership this morning but they were only capable of checking ECU codes, figuring out I'm not throwing any, and saying they were willing to clean the EGR if I wanted to proceed but couldn't guarantee it would help me pass. They recommended I look for a shop capable of doing a 5-gas test but couldn't give me any recommendations. They (thankfully) didn't charge me for their time. I asked about pulling the EGR pipe to see if it was clogged and they claimed that'd cost $250. I asked if they could do any other diagnostic to check for EGR blockage knowing that Matt's listed a method here, but they said they couldn't.

I suppose I've got a few main questions:
1.) would a 5-gas test actually lead any skeptical mechanic to the conclusion that the EGR needs cleaning?
2.) Does anyone between Pasadena and Galveston have a reliable mechanic familiar with legends?
3.) Is there any other non-money-wasting diagnostic that would lead a skeptical mechanic to the right conclusion?
abathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 10:18 AM   #2
Quaraxkad
Moderator?
 
Quaraxkad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Port Orange, FL
Posts: 3,947


Quaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to Quaraxkad
Default

Chances are, 99% of shops (dealers included), when asked to clean the EGR, will clean the pipe and not touch the lower manifold. That step is just as important, if not more-so, than cleaning only the pipe.

There is something you can do to test if your EGR system is operational and if it's clogged. The test isn't 100% fool-proof, but it's a good start before tearing things apart. You'll need a vacuum gauge/hand pump. Start the car and warm up the engine completely. You can do this after a drive to make sure it's fully warmed up. With the engine still running, disconnect the #11 vacuum hose and connect your vacuum pump to the EGR valve. Apply 6in.Hg of vacuum with the hand pump. If the engine stalls or starts to run roughly, then your EGR valve is operational and is at the very least not 100% clogged. If there is no change in how the engine idles, either the valve is not opening or the system is totally clogged and must be cleaned ASAP.
Quaraxkad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 01:03 PM   #3
abathur
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
abathur is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaraxkad View Post
Chances are, 99% of shops (dealers included), when asked to clean the EGR, will clean the pipe and not touch the lower manifold. That step is just as important, if not more-so, than cleaning only the pipe.
That's definitely the impression I've gotten from talking to the shops I've called thus far. I was prepared today to insist on the dealership letting me see it at various stages to make sure they did it right, but I wasn't expecting them to suggest the 5-gas test and decided to back off of making an immediate decision while I figure out if they're just following a useless script or whether the test could produce useful results.

I'll see if I can get my hands on a vacuum gauge.
abathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #4
Homeboyx
Pimp Hand Strong
 
Homeboyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Compton, CA
Posts: 14,468



Real Name: Papi
Homeboyx has a spectacular aura aboutHomeboyx has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via MSN to Homeboyx Send a message via Yahoo to Homeboyx
Default

Make absolutely sure you are running 91+ fuel in your tank.
__________________

RIP Fut
"A Legend Never Dies..." -Yours Truly
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotetu View Post
When something is so obviously wrong and draws your attention this strongly, you should look around to see what it's drawing attention away from.
Homeboyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 01:32 PM   #5
Chrispy
Pisser of Parades
 
Chrispy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 8,550
Real Name: Chrisp
Chrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Chances are pretty good if you dont have any check engine light codes, that your catalytic converter is probably at the end of its life, or it is related to a fuel injector or spark plug issue. Sometimes a dirty injector will also do this. The spray from the injector will be a stream instead of a fine mist, causing fuel to not burn completely and build up in the cat. Checking the spark plugs could also help, sometimes a bad spark plug will cause the fuel to not burn off completely and again will let excess fuel running into the cat. My first suggestion would be to let your fuel tank get down to about 1/4 tank. Then fill up the tank completely and pour in a bottle of techron fuel system cleaner/moisture remover. Costs about $9 for a bottle from Autozone or Walmart. Drive the car on the highway for about 50-100 miles to really work it through the fuel and to warm the engine up to normal operating temp. Go home, let the car cool off, and replace/inspect all the spark plugs. On the day of your emissions test, drive the car for 20-25 miles, on the highway if possible, THEN take it for its emission test. I highly doubt its the EGR as that would throw a CEL if it was inop.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrispy
If by some chance I have given you the impression that I care or that I give a f&%k, be advised that this user does, in fact, give less than a fraction of a f&%k what you think. Zero f&%ks have been given by this user in this post. Have a nice day

Chrispy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 02:05 PM   #6
abathur
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
abathur is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeboyx View Post
Make absolutely sure you are running 91+ fuel in your tank.
Usually 93 since that's all anyone around me seems to carry--but yeah, always 91+
abathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 02:15 PM   #7
Quaraxkad
Moderator?
 
Quaraxkad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Port Orange, FL
Posts: 3,947


Quaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of lightQuaraxkad is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to Quaraxkad
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrispy View Post
I highly doubt its the EGR as that would throw a CEL if it was inop.
Not if it was clogged.
Quaraxkad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 02:31 PM   #8
Chrispy
Pisser of Parades
 
Chrispy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 8,550
Real Name: Chrisp
Chrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Maybe if the tube was clogged, then yeah it wouldn't throw a cel. Bit of the egr itself were clogged, the valve would get stuck and throw a cel. I still don't see the egr alone causing that high of a nox gas value. Egr would probably be the 2nd to last thing I would check.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrispy
If by some chance I have given you the impression that I care or that I give a f&%k, be advised that this user does, in fact, give less than a fraction of a f&%k what you think. Zero f&%ks have been given by this user in this post. Have a nice day

Chrispy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 02:32 PM   #9
ari_one
MeltingInTheSun
 
ari_one's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,182

ari_one will become famous soon enough
Default

Just for reference info, when I failed emissions for CO not NOX my first attempted fix was cleaning EGR tube and replacing spark plugs. The result was my NOX went from 2.3 to 1.42 (Arizona test) but my CO went up The final result was that I changed the O2 sensors and my CO went from 15.64 to 8.86 easily passing and my NOX went from the 1.42 to 0.64 (just for reference).
__________________
Parting out 4 91 L Sedans (mostly type 'F', some type 'E') and 93 Coupe type 'E':
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

ari_one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #10
Chrispy
Pisser of Parades
 
Chrispy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 8,550
Real Name: Chrisp
Chrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of lightChrispy is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Yes, I did fail to mention O2 sensors. Was a cel present for the O2 sensors when you replaced yours Ari?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrispy
If by some chance I have given you the impression that I care or that I give a f&%k, be advised that this user does, in fact, give less than a fraction of a f&%k what you think. Zero f&%ks have been given by this user in this post. Have a nice day

Chrispy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
egr, emissions, nox


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cleaning 02 sensors failed Conrad 2nd Gen. Legend General Discussion 10 08-21-2011 09:43 PM
Acura legend crash test ( g2 ) Tippey The Water Cooler 12 06-01-2011 11:21 AM
My Legend Failed Me LegendaryAffinity 1st Gen. Legend General Discussion 18 11-26-2010 10:52 PM
Failed state emissions test Tm1 1st Gen. Legend General Discussion 6 10-24-2010 06:51 AM
FAILED emissions due to NO SickSUN71 2nd Gen. Legend General Discussion 9 01-03-2010 06:48 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

AcuraLegend.Org is not affiliated with, nor represents in any form, Acura and Honda Motor Company. Some logos and names used herein remain the trademark of Honda Motor Company.